Stay or Go? Healing Relationship Patterns with Katarina Polonska
For this week’s podcast, I brought along a friend… high-performance relationship coach and gender dynamics social scientist, Katarina Polonska! In this episode, we discuss how to make the difficult decision of whether to stay or leave a relationship, how to navigate messy power struggles, and how to move from individualism to collaboration to build stronger, more connected relationships. Yep, we cover it all!
Watch this episode now to discover:
The #1 way to get clarity on whether you should stay or leave a relationship (hint: the result is win-win: you either transform the relationship or you leave and find someone who is more aligned)
The 6-month strategy to "clean up your side of the street" and find undeniable clarity
The blame game that often happens in the power struggle phase of a relationship when our wounds (aka: sneaky unaddressed demons) like to come out
The responsibility we have to try and understand our partner's needs and to hold them AND ours with equal importance
How we've moved away from being collaborative in relationships to being individualistic and believing our needs matter more than our partners
A mindset shift that can help you have a better relationship with your in-laws and extended family (even if you couldn't be more yin and yang!)
About Katarina Polonska:
Katarina is a high-performance relationship coach and gender dynamics social scientist who specializes in helping people make clear relationship decisions. Her expertise in attachment theory, behavioral science of attraction, and the cultural influences on relationships provides a unique framework for understanding and transforming relationship patterns.
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Stay or Go? Healing Relationship Patterns with Katarina Polonska
Episode Full Transcript
All right, my loves—welcome back to the Modern Phoenix podcast. I brought you a friend, my new Czech bestie, Katarina Polonska. She’s going to talk to us about relationships. Katarina, would you introduce yourself? Then we’ll dive into all the juicy goodness.
Katarina: Absolutely. I’m Katarina. I’m a high-performance relationship coach and a gender dynamics social scientist. I help people with their romantic relationships and also do corporate work to improve professional dynamics. I specialize in what I call the behavioral science of attraction—really looking at what you’re attracting into your life on an unconscious level from a relational point of view, what you actually need to attract to be happy long-term, and how to do that. Think behavioral science meets law of attraction, working with the subconscious mind, and understanding your patterns: your core wounds, how you might be creating dysfunction in your relationships. I specialize in attachment theory, gender dynamics, and cultural/societal/familial conditioning, and I help people recondition their brains to work for them so they can have healthy, happy, secure, meaningful relationships.
A big subset of my work is helping people decide whether to stay or go in their romantic relationship. That was my dilemma for a long time with my ex-fiancé. I spent years unsure—“Is it me? Is it him? Is it the relationship?”—doing couples counseling, feeling frustrated by the process. I did end up leaving that relationship; I met my husband less than a year later. Now I help people figure out that decision, which is always influenced by conditioning, wounded parts, and limiting beliefs—helping them see the relationship clearly so they can make the best decision for them, knowing they’ve put in their all, cleaned up their side of the street, and can look back with integrity. They didn’t make a wounded decision, they didn’t jump and run, and they didn’t stay unnecessarily; they made a healthy, empowered, clear choice.
Gervase: Yes. I’ve been getting that a lot in my practice lately. I always say there are three big decisions: Should I quit my job? Should I leave my marriage? Should I become a mom?
Katarina: I help with the career question too—it’s similar to the marriage question. I worked with the COO of a global bank—making well into the millions, extremely young at 45—who said, “It’s like I’m in a toxic marriage with my job. I’ve got golden handcuffs, don’t want to leave, but I’m being abused and mistreated.” Where do I go next?
Gervase: So important—and so understandable that so many people are confused: Is it me or the systems? Me or the relationship? That’s the thread I hear. I was listening to you on another podcast, and while our modalities are different, I think we share frameworks for getting people to the other side—like you said, cleaning up your side of the fence. I’d love to hear more. Years ago I had a client in the “Should I leave my marriage?” boat. It was rough. There was anger, resentment, frustration: “It’s not fair—he’s not doing the work, won’t go to counseling.” I told her what I still feel now: “We’re not doing this for him. We’re doing this so you feel so clear about what’s right for you—that you gave this everything, that you’re aligned and coherent, no shoulds in the room, heart open and protected—so you can make a decision from that place.” Yes, it’s great when two people work on it, but the first thread (my old podcast was called It’s All Me) is being grounded and deconditioned in yourself.
Katarina: One hundred percent—and that’s actually the hardest thing. I’d done 15 years of therapy. I was already a trained coach, mindfulness teacher, had been to tons of retreats. My father worked with people like Joe Dispenza; I grew up in that world. I worked in behavioral science; I was a regional VP at a behavioral science company. Of all people, you’d think I could be grounded and figure it out. I’d also healed anorexia twice. And yet I’d sit here in Vancouver, meditating, and every day the question plagued me: “What do I do? Is it me? Is it him?” I was ruminating—extremely anxious—my gut firing signals I couldn’t discern.
My relationship coach then, the phenomenal Lisa Page, kept saying, “Get clear: Are you projecting past wounding onto this relationship, or are you responding to the present moment in real time?” I struggled to do that. I couldn’t see through my own fog—because your brain won’t let you see what you’re not ready to see, and I didn’t realize how much conditioning was playing in. I also didn’t know the full extent of the truth. It’s usually a gray area of both. But you still have power to clear your side of the street, to show up as best you can, and to try to inspire your partner to change versus nagging or cajoling (which won’t work). Reframe it. Give it a final six months—don’t drag it out for years. Be intentional with how you show up. Clean up your side; that’ll take at least a couple of months. Then own how you’re showing up with them, and look for data points: What do you need to see to know you’ll actually stay?
That helped me. Within that six-month window, I looked around and thought, “This isn’t enough for me.” I kept surrendering and praying for a sign—really wanting a final little kick to move me. I got a real kick—the clarity I needed—right at that six-month mark. I’d come so far; even our relationship had improved, but I prayed for clarity and then got it so loud and clear the decision was a no-brainer. I couldn’t have gotten there without that process. If I’d decided sooner, I’d have regretted it and never known. Now I’m in a healthy relationship. And to your point with your client: this approach is a win-win. You either up-level yourself and find someone better, or you up-level the relationship. Win-win.
Gervase: So true. Thank you for sharing your experience. What I keep hearing is waiting. Most modern women don’t have a great relationship with waiting—myself included. I’m a Projector in Human Design; our strategy is to wait for the invitation. For years I practiced: “Am I waiting? Being patient? Or pushing past my bandwidth?” In our modern world we’re primed for quick results and lightning shifts. I’m always reminding clients, family, myself: Nature is the guide. Some things take time. If you can accept that as the natural way, things shift when you least expect it.
Katarina: One hundred percent. And reframe “waiting” as not passive. You’re not just in a waiting room. It’s a process of learning and assimilating new information, embodying a new version of you, integrating, then up-leveling—bit by bit. Every challenge (relationship, business, health) invites you to learn, expand, integrate, upgrade. You can’t rush to the conclusion or you’ll miss the growth you need in order to hold the result. Think of winning the lottery—if you haven’t done the inner work to expand your capacity to hold money, appreciate it, and steward it, and you get a million dollars tomorrow, you’ll lose it. Better to take the slower route, do the work, get there, hold it, and compound it.
Gervase: Yes. One of my mentors, Jo Miller, says: “The slow way is the fast way.” It annoyed me at first, and now—through embodiment—I’m like, oh. If you take a fully formed flower and stick it in the ground: “See? Flower.” No, babe—you plant a seed, then wait. It looks like waiting, but it’s not passive. Things are happening in the dark. It takes time, roots grow, you water it, then it grows. That’s how you get your flowers; then they last. If you just stick a cut flower in the ground, it’s dead tomorrow. Respect the natural order of growth and evolution—humans as nature, not machines to quickly produce and multiply.
Can we talk childhood wounds? In my marriage, couples work has been such a beautiful investment. One thing that came up: bringing the unconscious to light. When I’m triggered and he’s triggered, we’re often projecting childhood wounds onto each other. It’s wild. For example: I was raised by a very control/discipline-oriented woman. Rushing is a trigger for me; I was rushed for 17 years. My husband loves order—he’s a Capricorn, spreadsheets. We once fought when I said, “We still have time,” and he said, “I hate being late. If I’m on time, I’m late. I need to be early.” I finally heard him: for him, being on time risks being late—and that’s so upsetting he gets grumpy. His childhood stuff is the opposite of mine. How do childhood wounds show up in relationships, and how do we use them for healing and “cleaning up our side of the fence”?
Katarina: Where to start! Honestly, the dating phase is unpacking your wounds and getting ready to even receive a relationship. Then you get the relationship and think, “I’ve arrived.” I did too—when I first got engaged I thought, “I made it through the wilderness.” Then commitment happened and all my stuff came up—worse. I’d done the mother wound, the father wound, plant medicine—“How is this all back?” I believe in romance you have to feel safe, vulnerable, and loved for your system to relax—and then your crap comes up. That’s why we have the power struggle phase. The honeymoon is hormones and rose-tinted glasses. You relax (which is good), and then your little wounds feel safe to come up and be addressed—“Mommy, Daddy, listen to me!”
Most of what happens in the power struggle (and beyond) is rooted in core wounds and conditioning. That’s how personality forms. High level: between zero and eight, your brain is a sponge; you’re mostly in theta (a light hypnotic state). You absorb everything and make it about you. If a parent comes home angry nightly because they hate their job, you make that anger about you. Children are egocentric; they form childlike conclusions: “I’m bad, not good enough, I did something wrong, I’m defective.” Repeated thoughts become the filter through which you see the world and yourself.
There are hundreds of millions (some say billions) of bits of data around us at any moment. Your filters decide what you take in. You and I take in different data based on our childhood conditioning. There’s no objective reality—only subjective. I had a multimillionaire client in a penthouse with a Ferrari who walked around saying, “No one wants me; the economy is terrible; there’s a recession,” (there’s always a recession with him). It was never enough—because he was never enough to himself. His perceptions impacted how he saw the world.
When you get into romance, those filters can hurt you; you and your partner see things differently, and maybe not accurately. Unaddressed stories and experiences that never got closure resurface. If you felt neglected as a child and never voiced it, it will show up in partnership. That’s a golden opportunity—assuming the dynamic is safe—to go inside, ask where it’s coming from, and revisit it (through modalities that work for you) so you stop seeing through an outdated lens. That’s what the power struggle is for. When people are arguing, can’t see eye to eye—“You did this; you did that”—I’m like: Great. Your stuff is up. Now you can examine it, do the inner work, get the therapist or coach, unpack and heal those broken stories, and see your partner, yourself, and your life more clearly and productively. Make sense?
Gervase: Totally. Thank you for the breakdown. It reminds me of something from our couples work: our coach would ask us to verbalize what we’d love the other to do instead of what they were doing. I can get cocky—“I’ve done the mother wound; I’ve been in therapy since 18; I have no blind spots”—so that question caught me. I was only pointing out what he was doing wrong, with “diagnostic evidence.” Being asked what I wanted instead—and finding it hard to answer—was humbling. It showed me I’d been stuck in a blaming, ruminating, better-than-thou mind. Practically, it became a pattern-breaker: I’d catch myself mid-speech, pause, and ask, “What do I want from him right now? How can I articulate that?” It changed our pattern. It also mirrors my work: less “Why is this happening?” and more “What resource is needed? What do you need to feel safe, resourced, supported, permitted, or to get a break right now?” How do you shape those questions for couples?
Katarina: You’ve hit something crucial: beneath every conflict is a need trying to get met. Your subconscious mind—whether you’re in a screaming match or brushing your teeth—is working to get needs met. In a fight, you might be seeking connection, validation, safety—whatever it is. The key is to drop beneath “what they’re not doing” into: What do I feel? Where is it coming from? What do I need to feel better? If we all pause to get clear on that—and even ask, “What might my partner need right now?”—nine times out of ten the argument stops and you’re back to a normal conversation.
And understand your needs will often differ from your partner’s. You might not understand their needs. They may seem irrational. That’s not your job—just like your needs aren’t theirs to judge. In a monogamous committed relationship, you do have a duty to try to help them meet their needs, but it’s not on you to decide right/wrong about those needs. I coached a couple who kept going, “He said… She said… you’re wrong.” I told them, “You’re both wrong; you’re both right.” The night before, at 10 p.m. (and honestly, any argument after 9 p.m.—good luck), my husband told me what hurt and what he needed. I remember thinking, “I literally don’t understand. I’m hurt.” My brain couldn’t compute. But it’s not up to me. That’s what he feels. So I had to give him what he needed—even though it took swallowing pride. The gold standard is moving from scarcity/competition (“I have to win, so you must be wrong”) to abundance/collaboration (“There’s enough to go around; we can both be right and both be wrong; they’re allowed to want what they want, and so am I”). No one has to lose here.
Gervase: That brings up the part of me that says, “I don’t have to.” I can choose to. Which, of course, I want to—because I love my people. What helps the stubborn teen in me is remembering I get to give what I want to receive. A lot of women have a confused relationship with giving and receiving—out of balance and highly conditioned. If I drop down, I remember I’m in a partnership where I also get to receive the thing I’m giving. That collaborative energy is missing in our culture; this right/wrong paradigm is hurting couples, families, everyone. How do you work with that?
Katarina: I actually think it is our job to give our partner certain things—if we’re in a marriage or chosen monogamous contract. That choice comes with a contract. You also get to break it; you have freedom. But the less we treat it as a burden to rebel against and more as a privilege and part of the contract, the better. If I make $3 million, I have a job to be responsible with it—to nurture and steward it. It would be sloppy to say, “I don’t feel like looking at it.” There’s a responsibility in caring for our partner’s heart. It’s a privilege—but it also means they have a responsibility to care for ours.
That night at 10 p.m., I wanted to sleep; I was crying and felt awful. But I came back to: here’s the man I’m devoted to. Even if he looks like a demon to me right now, he’s vulnerable and has needs. It’s my job to be as loving and caring as I can, even when it’s freaking hard. We need more of that duty to each other, to neighbors, to community. In Anglo-American cultures, we’re so individualistic—“I don’t want to do that.” Frankly, no one wants to do the hard thing, but if we all refuse, society frays. Humans progress with collaboration, community, generosity. Bring that to romance. I don’t know where we lost it (capitalism plays a role), but somewhere we did.
A few years ago at work in Vancouver, a colleague said she’d been to the weirdest wedding—very “conscious relationship.” The couple’s vows were basically, “I’ll look after me; you look after you; we’ll do our own thing and come together freely.” On the one hand, yes—be responsible for yourself. On the other, why get married? We’ve demonized responsibility for the other. You can do both: be fully responsible for yourself and for carrying your spouse’s heart. That’s a win-win relationship.
Gervase: So much comes up. With extended family and in-laws (already complicated with your own family, and now you add another!), I’ve landed here: me and you—and that gets to work. How do I honor extended family? “Responsibility” isn’t my favorite word (semantics), but I do feel a commitment to my in-laws because I love their son. It’s not my job to judge them or separate from them. I belong to this tribe. It’s messy and confronting and loving and supportive. The deeper I can be with the mess of those relationships, the more I grow. We all belong to each other in different ways. We have an unspoken contract. I could pretend it doesn’t exist, but by honoring my in-laws, I honor lineage—our children’s lineage. Americans, especially, have lost ties to ancestors, belonging, community. It’s easier to sit in isolated castles and be “right,” but your child is the grandchild of his parents. Are you going to chop that off at the root? How do you be with the mess of ancestry? That’s part of the work.
Katarina: As you’re saying that—same. My husband’s from Barbados; you look at that lineage and it’s slavery. He doesn’t know where he’s from—Latin America? Africa? There’s a generational memory gap from a horrific capitalist outcome. I’m half Russian—its own mess; family in Ukraine; family in Israel—more hot mess. I’ve lived in eight countries. It makes sense we’re all different; we all have different lineages. We are one global family on one home—this planet. There’s a range to the human experience.
In my academic career (during my master’s), I studied Anglo-American feminism. From my perspective it was “right.” When I lived in Dubai, I got passionate about emancipating women and tried a research project there. The women were like, “We don’t need emancipating. Go to Iraq.” Interesting. So I studied Russian women’s emancipation. After the Soviet Union collapsed in the 90s, many Anglo-American women came to “set you free,” but Russian women were like, “We had abortions—the state did lots of them. We don’t want more. We don’t want to have to work in the public sphere; we want a private life.” It challenged my assumptions. Then I looked at how other cultures view the Anglo-American landscape—Japanese feminism called American women barbaric for mutating bodies with plastic surgery/Botox and for grinding through menstruation without rest. Fascinating.
So there’s no single right/wrong (beyond fundamental liberal truths like peace, freedom, love, don’t kill, equality). In partnership, you do want enough value alignment—religion was a big issue with my ex—and cultural alignment on fundamentals. But there’s a range of humanity we have to accept. We’re learning what it is to be human—and how weird the world is.
Gervase: Of course you did casual feminist research in Dubai and then Oxford. A thread to land this: when you’re with people different from you—partner, extended family, strangers—ask: What is my intention? With Great Aunt Sue (my husband’s aunt) who lives a totally different existence, we share my husband. Sometimes that has to be enough. I’m not gaslighting anyone into toxic relationships; I’m talking about the imaginary Aunt Sue. What helps when it’s confronting is asking, “What do I want from this relationship? Why am I visiting? What do I need? What do we share?” It’s easy to focus on what we dislike or think is wrong. It’s harder to flex curiosity: “Huh, I wonder why they’re that way? What’s my intention here? Could I bring intention to this?” That question is more motivating and gets me through more than, “I have an obligation.” It applies everywhere.
Katarina: A hundred percent. I love: “For what purpose am I doing this?” For what purpose am I trying to prove I’m right? So I can be right? Maybe it’s enough to know my own opinion and belief system—and I don’t need others to agree. If it’s not enough, get curious about why. Often it comes back to the wound of not feeling enough.
Gervase: This has been lovely, as usual. Thank you for your insights and your really smart brain. Tell people how to find you and your work. I know you have a masterclass and a podcast—share everything so folks can keep in touch.
Katarina: First, find me on a patio with you for an afternoon—that’s what I want! But yes: my website is www.katerinapolonska.com—that’s K-A-T-A-R-I-N-A-P-O-L-O-N-S-K-A.com. You’ll find a link to my free 20-minute masterclass on the behavioral science of deciding whether to stay or go in your romantic relationship or your career. I’m very active on LinkedIn—posting twice a day with educational content—so come engage with me there (search “Katerina Polonska”). I’m also now on TikTok (a week ago I bit the bullet): @katerina.polonska. And on Instagram I’m @katerinapolonska. You’ll find me under my name across platforms. YouTube is where my podcast tends to be these days, and of course it’s on Spotify, Apple, and the rest.
Gervase: Amazing. We’ll put that in the show notes. Thank you for your time. I want to acknowledge you for being such a brilliant, curious, empathetic human—and for working so hard to make sense of this crazy mess called being human with other humans. It’s so hard. Thank you.